UIL has posted official 4A list here. 5A list here.
Who wants to tell them they left off Doc Bunnell's boy (4A back)?
No, he's not going to scratch it to go an extra relay. Kennedale's a team of one...
Edited 8:51 p.m.: Revised 4A list here.
Edited 9:15 p.m.: Official lists have been pulled and replaced with this statement:
Qualifiers are currently being reviewed for accuracy and will be posted when the information becomes available.
Enough already! I have to get up for morning workout...goodnight!
Edited 2/12/13 8:31 a.m.: Warning! Above links still work, but have incorrect info.
Leaving them up in case you want to check them out.
Our unofficial lists differ in at least two (2) events (boys' 4A 100 back and boys' 5A 200 free) from the originals at the very top of this post.
Revised list (8:51 p.m. edit) corrected boys' 4A 100 back.
p.s. All region results have been posted here.
65 comments:
You woke some one up at UIL at 8:30pm. 4a updated to add Bunnell, no indication of course what they changed. No hattip to Texasswimming.org either.
Feel sorry for the official 8th call up who is no longer official...
good for them. maybe they'll get around to putting cannon clifton back in the 200 free (region v-5a champion) soon...
'Feel sorry for the official 8th call up who is no longer official...'
that would have been wu from dawson.
Can you blame them for their mistakes? They were pressured by some amateurs already having results out and had to work a long 8hour day to get the results out by 5pm.
You have got to be kidding me - what a bunch of bozos.
I can get to the 5a list
I would bet that Cannon Clifton has dropped the 200 free to swim all three relays.
The Woodlands is going to try to ride his speed, to attempt to win all three relays, since they have little chance to win the meet. If so, too bad for the Woodlands boys that "qualified" the third relay, as they may not get to swim at State.
Yes you can still view the originals
Button out...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Can someone tell them that it's Austin Vandegrift (not Vandegrif)
Hey guys! I did some digging and found the results on the UIL Texas web site! There is a psych sheet and everything on there. The place is great! And it says their list is official, but you were pretty much dead on with your list. Thank you Mr. Button!!
What if we went to a time qualifer for each event? Like USA does for sectionals? Sure it could make a meet longer, but look at the possible outcomes you could have. What would be more enjoyable, it would test the coaches ability to have their swimmers in the right spot. This could have mulitple outcomes, that just makes the meet that much more exciting. Now I'm not speaking badly on the regions that dont have fast swimmers, but who is the beneficery when a male swimmer in the 200FR swims a 1:56 and is 8 seconds behind the 2nd to last swimmer, who also happens to be 3 seconds behind the following swimmer? I'd actually pay to see a reality TV show of the coaches scrambling around, stabbing each other in the back trying to figure out who is swimming what, who's in what relay. Like I said many possible outcomes to this. I'd say you can only have 1 relay, and 4 swimmers in each event if they meet the time standard (yes South Lake Carrol we know you'll have 4 in all events). This gives us the best team of the year, with the best swimmers, and tests our coaches abilities (I really just want to see this because of the coaches) Tell me your thoughts!
both 5a and 4a results are out on the UIL site again. The latest 4A file has a time stamp of 12:57pm 2/12/13. The 5A file time statm is 4:35pm 2/11/13
'I'd actually pay to see a reality TV show of the coaches scrambling around, stabbing each other in the back'
should have filmed us in mansfield. i'm still pulling daggers out of my back...
Regarding the whole post about a time standard, and coaches scrambling and SL having 4 in each, etc....Texas HS swimming has never been about Texas HS coaches. The kids that make to State and win or even Top 8 at State are because of year round training at USS clubs. It has always been that way and will always be that way because its more exciting and better for the HS's that way. So, it's silly to post something that implies the HS coaches have anything to really do with anything in HS swimming....just saying
To the above comment... You must not know much about the successfull high school swimming programs. Maybe at some of the lower, less competitive swim teams in the state do the head coaches sit around and let the club coaches do the coaching, and just "supervise", but not the teams at the top of the state meets. Don't get me wrong, club coaches still do alot to help the swimmers, but to say it is silly to talk about the HS coaches at all is quite silly in itself.
My son never swam club and is seeded 6th in the 100 fly and is on 3 relays at state....all due to excellent high school swim coaches!
"So it's silly to post something that implies the HS coaches have anything to really do with anything in HS swimming...just saying."
This person seems to have little understanding of what it takes to excel, as a TEAM, in Texas HS Swimming. They may have a legitimate point that USA swimming is a necessary part of Texas HS Swimming excellence, especially on the individual level. But without the vision and leadership of a good HS Head Coach, swimming is only an individual sport. A fine HS Head Coach creates a TEAM vision that strengthens and motivates ALL the individuals on the TEAM. Lessons from Geese...
There are quite a few excellent HS Head Swim Coaches in Texas. Many of them would make great USA coaches, if they had chosen that path.
I am personally offended by the above comment. I, for one, refuse to post anything on Texas Swimming that I am not willing to put my name behind. My name is Kevin Murphy and I am the Head Swim Coach at Southlake Carroll HS.
At Southlake Carroll, we have a "real" HS Program. A Program where ALL of our HS swimmers are required to actually attend and participate in our important HS morning practices, each and every school day of the HS season, late August to the State HS Meet. Where we race on demand almost EVERY day. Where we strive, as a TEAM, to pursue the Texas State Championship EVERY year. We may not be successful every year, but that is our TEAM Goal, and that Goal and the vision behind it, originates with the leadership of the Southlake Carroll HS Head Coach. Where we don't just go through the motions in our HS training and simply rely on the "club" Program/Programs, to do our work for us. I, and our Dragon Coaching Staff, work hard every day, to see that the Southlake Carroll Swimmers are mentored, guided, motivated, coached and focused to excel in their HS swimming. We then help to see that the HS swimmers are fully supported as they move on to "A" Champs, Sectionals, JR Nationals and and TAGS. It is the cooperation between the "club" Coaching Staff and the HS Coaching Staff at Southlake Carroll, that has created the HS/USA Program that you see now. It has not been an accident. The "plan" began 8 years ago, with a "vision" brought to Southlake Carroll in August of 2005. We hope to see it continue for another 10-15 years.
While I would surely agree that the USA Program is a necessary ingredient to assure individual success in Texas HS Swimming, it is the vision and the leadership of the HS Head Coach, that builds the TEAM and assures long-term success in the HS Program. We plan three and four and five years in advance, to see that there is a full and balanced complement of fine young men and women coming up through summer-league teams, and lessons, and the USA Team and MS Camps, to field a competitive and balanced HS TEAM, far into the future. Our job is to build up the kids and offer them a dream about their HS swimming and being a part of a great TEAM!.
So, please come to the Texas State Meet this year, to see our Southlake Carroll HS PROGRAM, as our TEAM (swimmers and divers and coaches and parents) strive together, as a TEAM, to pursue the 5A State Titles in Men's and Women's Swimming & Diving.
We strive to excel, as a TEAM, to win the Texas State Swim/Dive Championships. If we excel, as a TEAM, then we are pleased and will accept whatever place we finish as long as we do our best, together!
Kevin Murphy
Head Swim Coach
Southlake Carroll HS
Just catching up on comments - yes, Coach Murphy in our opinion is the best high school coach in the country. His practices along with the kids who swim club in the afternoon(not all state qualifiers do swim club)create great swimmers and an even strong TEAM. These swimmers race their club competition from neighboring high school teams and they are all good sports. Sometimes, it's 3 dragons on the medal stand and sometimes it's 3 NTN swimmers from different HS teams on the stands - and sometimes it's none of the above - it's the great competition from other clubs and other HS Teams. However, make no mistake, Carroll is strong because of Coach Murphy and the relationship built in the community and with the club team.
YEAH Grant!! GRANT PRINGLE FOR PRESIDENT!!!
So this is all loaded. I've been around for a bit. It is not a surprise when Southlake wins state high school championships after their club team won Tags for many years. Just like when Blue Tide and TWST were winning Tags, Kingwood and The Woodlands were winning high school championships. You look at any high school team that is successful it is mostly a correlation of the club team. There is one exception and that is Kingwood Park. Very few of Greg Mclains kids swim club. You can't argue the success of Coach Murphy. Now go to a town without the club/money/parent support as you have in Southlake and I will put you up another level as a coach if you have the same success as you do now.
I've known several kids at State who don't swim club. But also, how many club swimmers don't make it to State? You can't just look at it one way! In the posts I'm reading, it seems that people think you can make it to state if you have a good club coach and your HS coach does nothing. NOT TRUE! If that were the case, then there would be a ton more kids fighting for the spots. We know there are some great swimmers who never make it and very few mediocre kids who do. The coach has to decide which kids to put in different events, which meets to attend and race and of course the all important taper. And lets not forget the push and pull of club coaches - a HS coach has to negotiate to ensure his kids don't have non taper practices with club. If it were easy, we would all do it - clearly it is not.
Did you know that the SLC club feeder - NTN also trains most if not all of the Keller swimmers? I don't see Keller HS at the same level of SLC. LAC trains Flower Mound and I don't see them at the level of SLC. Not trying to dis' them - they are great HS teams and may someday - even this year, overtake SLC. But don't state that a HS coach doesn't have to do anything if they have a good club because that doesn't pan out when you look at all the data.
Southlake Carroll is a very special place. As is New Trier, and Bolles, The Baylor School, Carmel, and many other historically strong HS Programs. Great parents, great kids, great community support, summer-league teams and healthy USA "club" support. One town, one HS Team, one pool, one HS team. All those factors are positive factors that contribute to the overall success of the Program. Sometimes it seems that successful coaches just "fall" into fertile places and just "happen" to be successful. That can be true, but usually, if the coach is not organized, can't communicate and promote his/her vision, is of unsound character, and can't deliver fast swimming on the right day, then the swimmers and parents grow disillusioned and the coach becomes ineffective and eventually drops out or moves on. The right place, the right support, the right leadership, the right Program design, the right circumstances, all these items come together, with God's blessing, to create something special. We have something special at Southlake Carroll.
We are excited and looking forward to the 2013 Texas State HS Meet, and beyond.
Ok, find a proportionate amount of HS only swimmers on this please http://www.tisca.org/All%20Time%2050%20Top%20Times/TISCA%205A%20All-Time%20Top%2050-2012.pdf
Take away all club swimmers for HS and let's see what happens and who wins state. You guys are delusional to think HS teams aren't stacked with USS kids and the argument of USS kids swimming club going to other HS's that don't win is not valid either, show me the proportion of BB level HS kids vs UsOpen cut swimmers on the team. This is not a dis to non-club HS swimmers making it to HS State nor is it a dis to HS coaches, it's a simple reality.
Coach Murphy, take away all your USS kids including the ones who chose not to swim with you, BR, and when you win HS state I'll be the first to congratulate your pure coaching skills; which include not just how to strategically to place high level swimmers, some even in events that may not be their best, (but even a NCSA level breaststroker can obliterate the best AA primary breaststroker), but also coaching them from day 1 in only the slotted time allowed for extra-curricular HS swimming. Get over yourself Coach Murphy, no one was personally attacking you, but I am calling you out on your tirade b/c you read something that someone posted and some of these folks don't know the truth of the matter. Again, no one is attacking you, even me, but certainly don't take 100% credit when your contribution to the sum of the parts isn't 100%.
I am not a coach but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.....seriously not a coach though, I am well informed from being involved for almost 30years in one fashion or another.
'Get over yourself Coach Murphy, no one was personally attacking you, but I am calling you out on your tirade b/c you read something that someone posted and some of these folks don't know the truth of the matter. Again, no one is attacking you, even me, but certainly don't take 100% credit when your contribution to the sum of the parts isn't 100%.'
uncalled for. kevin is a humble guy who's the first to thank his assistant coaches, athletes, parents, administration, and club program. he'd never - nor would most any successful club or high school coach - take 100% credit for an athlete's or a team's performance.
do i need to go back to moderating comments, children?
What site is this and why is it even necessary? Shouldn't there be a blog with swimmers talking about how excited they are to step up for their team and demonstrate THEIR HARD WORK instead of that of the many coaches that claim responsibility to team outcomes? Forget about moderating this site, get rid of it!
'Forget about moderating this site, get rid of it!'
no
Button,
I don't see how what you put in quotes was uncalled for. Clearly Coach Murphy, whom I couldn't pick out in a room alone with me, was offended by some earlier post and went on to talk about everything HE does to make SLC a championship team. My point was that without USS swimmers and USS coaches who chose that as THEIR profession, odds would not be in SLC favor no matter how much other stuff he claims he does to make it a championship TEAM. Again there is no disrespect to any coach including him, but HS's like to parade their coaches win they win state and no credit goes to the coaches that coach them 95% or greater of the time. USS swimmers of that caliber have been trained to know how to swim relays, how to swim an event, how much they need to warm down, etc...they've been doing it for years and there is no "coaching" involved for those particular athletes, no matter what any coach thinks. Take away USS swimmers, then we can talk about the efficacy of each individual HS coach.....and then that coach can lose his humility and espouse how great a job he/she does.
Has anyone noticed how many elite athletes are left out of state this year? Licon, Ringold, this list goes on. You think they dropped HS swimming because the HS expectations were so challenging that they couldn't make it happen? I would be willing to bet HS swimmers are deciding themselves not to compete HS becuase of the lack of collaborative effort between HS and Club coaches, which impedes upon the success of their hard work and outcomes. SAD for all of these athletes that coaches require so much credit!
Looks like someone left off who has to make the decision if the team will have orange wedges and Capri suns during the breaks....now that sounds like a complete season plan.
BR lives in Keller. He is homeschooled... He and his parents chose not to attend Keller ISD.
w licon's no longer at plano. now with nitro.
those of you ripping h.s. coaches are actually referring to the sponsors that are out there.
i poke fun at them myself.
just agree there are high school coaches that coach and do a great job of it. they and their area club coaches supplement one another's programs and the kids benefit greatly. some of these h.s. coaches also run pretty danged good club programs themselves.
programs that struggle often have either a h.s. sponsor-type coach or a club that's not committed to excellence.
rather than offer serious training opportunities, kids are just on a conveyor belt in the swim factory that provides the school with a swim program and the club with revenue. mediocrity is the standard there. good enough is good enough.
you want senior-level swimming excellence? get a coach for your high school program that knows how to and wants to actually coach. live near (or move near) a club program that's consistently putting kids into high-level meets.
you want senior-level swimming mediocrity? get yourself a sponsor that knows how to fill out the paperwork and order the whataburgers. send your kid to a club team that is satisfied with sending a kid or two to sectionals now and then.
How about the whole argument that if you don't place proper swimmers in proper events you don't WIN! Making a time standard would not only give the kids something to work for and towards but at the same time challenge the coaches to coach( this was my original point). Now I don't believe anyone is personally attacking anyone, nor should anyone take it personally. If you wanna see a coach "coach" I recommend the movie documentary "Undefeated". For those of you who don't like this site, I love it Button does a great job and keeps me posted on swimming while I'm deployed. So it's quite simple we have a saying in the service, you don't like it don't come ( hopefully you can read between the lines)
Wow, this seems to be a lot of dialogue about things that are out of peoples control. Fact, the high school coach can only coach the swimmers who live in their school district, and if have moved there followed all of the UIL PAPF-type rules, Bowie of course is the only exception. So what if some athletes swim club for club A or club B. Yes the more club swimmers on the high school team, the faster and deeper the team is. The club coaches do their jobs, and the high school coaches do their jobs. In a best case situation they communictate and work things out for the benefit of the athlete. Yes there have been coaches make Big names for themselves as super high school coaches, when the major factor was the club team they share the pool with was doing a great job. The reality is that even then, they have to do a good job coaching the swimmers on the hs team. There have been cases of hs coaches with great feeder USA club teams, screw up winning a state championship, because they didn't know what they were doing. Coach Murphy is a very hard working coach and has won several state championships. Congrats to him. Other than that, let it go....
well stated deer slayer
Why would you slay a deer? I guess I can understand "deer hunter", but slayer? That is just inhumane. deer? what the heck did they do to you? I agree with your comment, but I don't understand why someone would name their account "deer slayer". Think about how a fellow like myself, very fond of the deer population, would feel if they stumbled across something so cruel and immoral like this. Please, next time you go slaughtering some poor, helpless, cute, little, deer think about their family and all they have to offer in this wonderous world. and please allow them to go peacefully. Ugh, what has happened to this world. :(
Clifton dropping 200 free is a joke! Even if he splits a 23, that relay can't win that event. A relay is not a one man show! Clifton can't pull the weight in just a 50! It was different when TWHS was stacked with Cooper and Clifton and a few other guys. Look at State line up-there are no other A-list kids, they've all pulled out of HS swimming. Moore out of SA looks like he may have a shot to win two gold, but I've never seen his name before. HS swimming in Texas isn't what it used to be. After reading blogs above, maybe club and HS coaches should get together and come up with a plan that places our athletes back on top!
Can you spell Jonahan Roberts? 1:37 & 4:23 unshaved...
yeah, j-o-n-a-t-h-a-n...
Never heard of him. With no A list kids in those events, he won't have to shave.
Can you spell JONATHAN??
If Clifton "even splits a 23" it will only be because he slipped on the start, completely missed the turn, and swallowed water....or he is warming down.
It took all of about 10min to learn that Jonathan was rested at Regionals....
Of course he was.....took all of 2min looking up his prev times...he did well at regionals but he was certainly rested
the kid went 4:21 (and 15:12 in the mile) back at juniors.
guessing he had a mini-rest to get down to 4:23. fully rested though? i doubt it.
not trying to put too much pressure on the young man, but we could see klueh's state record (4:19.41) go down this weekend.
Considering he was shaved/tapered at Juniors and with plenty of kids to compete with, it might be a little harder hitting such standards at State with little to no competition. No doubt the kid is a good swimmer, but you are right, setting outcome expectations is a little premature and not necessary. Let the kids do what they are ready to do and let that be good enough.
Okay I'm sorry I'm still not getting why someone named their google account "Deer slayer"... It is really irritating me..
To all those people doubting Jonathan Roberts, you'll have a pleasant surprise waiting for you in Austin this weekend. There is no stopping this kid, he's beezle-twelve washingbeard!
'Okay I'm sorry I'm still not getting why someone named their google account "Deer slayer"... It is really irritating me..'
never read any james fenimore cooper?
Amazing how many wanna-be losers wish their kid was a Roberts, Clifton, etc. Let these kids swim for God sake and enjoy their time in spot light! Apparently some of you never had such opportunities!
This blog site is full of bantering back and forth with little to no productivity to offer the sport of swimming. What a shame...so many hours put into the sport to have it blasted routinely and arrogantly on this useless site. I hope the kids/parents/teams mentioned in this blog have more to do than read it!
Haha! You feel the need to comment so it did its job! or Better yet you read it, than commented just like us. Or well point out some negative things "you" didnt like. Lets see whats that called......... Oh thats right contradictive. Leave us to debate what we want, you dont have to be here nor comment. If you dont like it stay away, you are worse than the people who want to argue over taper or no taper. They are debating! Nice to see your "banter" though, it effected me in so many different ways!
Well for at least the male 500fr, the top 25 USA swimmers in Texas (14-18), except two, are all in High School finals (most but not all doing the 500 at state (5a/4a) or in college (5 of them). 2 swimmers not in HS are the already mentioned Ringgold, and one other gulf swimmer.
Of course that is one event, but does not back up top USA swimmers skipping HS swim.
Too bad Tx swimmers can't keep up with Conger, Murphy, etc. Even Clifton and Roberts can't keep up...I thought they were A-swimmers....
'Too bad Tx swimmers can't keep up with Conger, Murphy, etc. Even Clifton and Roberts can't keep up...I thought they were A-swimmers....'
if that's sarcasm, good one!
if not, you're likely an out-a-stater pot-stirrer fool.
just bulletin board material for our high schoolers.
"Too bad Texas Swimmers can't keep up with Conger etc...."
If you live out of Texas, good for you. Stay where you are, we don't need you or want you here. Your comment is that of a moron, with little understanding of what it takes to excel in anything.
Your view shows a disdain for the efforts of other people and indicates that you are either an elitist or a loser in your own life.
We love it here in Texas and are proud of the hard work and accomplishments of ALL of our swimmers and coaches and parents, HS & USA. One does not have to be a super-star to gain the benefits of hard work and striving in sport, swimming or otherwise. If you live here, shut-up or move....
'If you live here, shut-up or move....'
texas, love it or leave it!
Regarding Clifton, I've been watching that kid swim since he was 10 yrs old! His accomplishments, technique, and humble demeanor always amaze me! He doesn't lift weights, do dry land or swim doubles outside of a few days during the Christmas holidays. I myself have been coaching 26-years and have never seen such outcomes with so little training. While college training may come as a shock, Cannon could possibly be one of the most talented non-burned out kids walking into collegiate swimming.
Plan on making a trip to Austin for State finals! Men's relays are top on my list to see! 44.0 100 free by Clifton who flipped at 20.9...big swim! I think Roberts was playing around with the 200/500 fr, should be interesting to see! Texas may not have HS standouts like Murphy or Conger, but finals will be entertaining!
Jonathan Roberts, 1:36.3, new Texas State Record, fastest ever 200 free at the Texas State Meet in the history of Texas HS swimming.
500 free 4:20.0, with the nearest swimmer 9.9 seconds behind. Missed the State Record, but he still has Sectionals to look forward to and, of course, he is just a Junior in HS. He has more gas in the tank. 45.4 lead-off in 100 free on winning 400 free relay, 3:04.1.
For those "swim experts" on this blog that said he was shaved and tapered at Regions....he had a two day rest, and was not shaved at Regions. Why would he shave there?
As an aside, for all the "swimming experts", EVERY Carroll HS swimmers trains AM practices, EVERY school day, in Carroll HS swim practices, (it is a class, with mandatory HS practices from the 2nd day of school until the Texas State Meet) so it is a stretch to claim that "95% of the credit" in Southlake Carroll goes to the "club" coach. Most of the Dragon Varsity swimmers train 5x's per week in HS practice and 3 to 5x's per week with the "club" Program. As we all know, the bar is set very high in Texas HS swimming and the "club" Programs are very important, and the results of the Southlake Carroll HS swim teams could not be accomplished without the "club" Programs, and their support.
However, it may also be noted, by the "swimming experts", that of the 9 boys that swam and won the 2013, Texas 5A Championship, only two of them were highly successful, NTN age group swimmers.
Two of them only swam summer-league prior to 9th grade, another two of them were only fair age group swimmers at NTN and accelerated and "blossomed" in the Dragon HS Program, another two of them swam age group out of State before coming here, and one of them just started swimming in 9th grade in HS, with the Dragons.
Congratulations to Roberts and the entire Southlake Carroll Dragon Swim TEAM, Boys and Girls, as they dominated the 2013 Texas 5A State Swim/Dive Meet.
We are super-proud of our Dragon swimmers and divers.
Kevin Murphy
Head Swim Coach
Southlake Carroll HS
Signing off of posting for this 2013 swim season.
Time to get to work for next year.
Coach Murphy,
Your team did a great job, but as a former coach, it is really disheartening to see you act like this on this forum. You had the most numbers and most swims and that is a definite advantage....just as it was for Plano, The Woodlands, and every other "team" that has won.....no, it is not THE answer why your team won, but it is a HUGE advantage, as it was to all those schools. For you to post some "Ha, in your face" rebuttal just further demonstrates your inferior coaching package. Can you ever imagine Bob Bowman, Eddie Reese, Skip Kenney, Dave Salo, and the list goes on of great coaches, ever acting like this in print? It's one thing to congratulate your swimmers, it's another to try and validate yourself to people who "offend" you with their opinions....what a sore winner! Hopefully humility is included in the things to work on for next year.
You are correct and I am convicted. I will take your advice, it is well-said.
Murphy
Wow! Nice connent 11:50PM, well written! I sat near Clifton's mom who also hapoens to be his club coach. I overheard her say that Robert's is insanely talented and fun to watch. The man sitting next to her asked if she thought Cannon could have won the 200fr. Her response was, "I didn't have to taper Cannon for three relays or the 100, but had I taken that same approach if Cannon stayed in the 200, I think it would have been a great race with Robert's possibly getting his hand on the wall first." Impressive comment from a mom and coach of a great athlete. Now that's humility at it's finest! My kid swims for Klein, but it was a nice change to hear Ms. Clifton give credit where credit is due.
wow, muhammad! you sure know how to add important info! thanks for your insightful contribution!!
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